Moderator note, this was originally a reply to a MacBreak episode: MBW 808: Surprises and Delights
I love listening to Leo, but too often his audio steps on his guests. This is especially true when guests other than the usual trio are on.
@leo has mentioned this before, but in essence, it is the delay because of the video feeds the guests are on. I suspect that it also comes down to the guests not being used to such feeds and when someone starts speaking over them, they stop talking (it is an automatic reflex). The regular guests are used to it and keep talking and Leo does his best to recognise that he has talked over someone and will let them continue.
Until we invent lagless videocalls, this problem will always exist. It is up to the hosts to recognise when they have started talking over someone and then tell them to continue. IMHO, Leo does a fairly good job at that.
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The delay makes it worse, but I often run into a similar problem with my own 1:1 cell phone calls or Zoom/Skype/Teams meetings. The other person starts talking at the same time as you, or a fraction of a second after, and the audio gets cut off, and there’s an awkward micro pause as you figure who should proceed. I find it incredibly frustrating. Maybe I’m crazy, but I don’t recall this being an issue with old analog phones. And it is one of the things I really prefer about in-person meetings.
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I should have added more to my original note.
I understand the audio lag, but I think there is more to it. There have been instances where a guest has expertise in an area but Leo will speak at length expounding on the topic. I recall several times when a female lawyer was on the panel but did not get much air time. Perhaps he goes into explainer mode automatically since that is his role on the radio.
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Isn’t this ZoomISO thing supposed to solve the delay issue? Listening to MBW today, and other times recently, seems even more noticeable hosts stepping on each other’s comments. Especially Leo but others too.
ZoomISO certainly reduces lag and the experience was a lot better, when I was on the Book Club with @ant_pruitt and @gigastacey last week, but there is still lag, there will always be lag, because of the distances involved.
With the old system, it was really noticeable, there was a delay, until you heard the host or the others speak. With ISO, there is still a delay, but it is much shorter - don’t forget, I am sitting in Germany, talking to somebody in Petaluma, plus other guests in other parts of the USA/the World. There is probably a lag of around 150ms (very approximate) one way, plus the other remote guests, they have to get to Petaluma and then back out to the other guests. That is a lot better, especially for the studio putting everything together, and it is noticeably better, but there is still a noteiceable lag.
The individual connections (copper will be, theoretically, slower than fibre, the sound has to get from the microphone, into the computer, be encoded, be passed to Zoom, be packed up to be sent, is sent to the host, where the reverse is done. Even if it is hollow fibre (very rare), and a single run of cable, no repeaters, no routers, just end-to-end, it would take the data a minimum of ~30m/s to get from me to Petaluma. Add in all the hops, maybe some old copper cabled on the way, most of the run being non-hollow fibre, you are building in more and more delay.
With the old system, I believe they had “the show” stream, and each guest was on their own call to the control room, which then mixed them together, which added more delay. ZoomISO eliminates this part of the equation, as far as I understand it, maybe Ant or @Jammerb can describe that better, and allows them to create just a single Zoom conference and to mix that directly, on the fly. That reduces a lot of the latency, but the latency of being in separate physical locations still remains - and the older the technology (copper or old fibre, slow routers and switches etc.) the higher that latency is going to be.
You can improve the situation, but you can’t eliminate the problem entirely. If you look at a lot of outside broadcast or foreign studio reports on television, there can be anything from half a second to a couple of seconds between the announcer asking a question and the reporter/interviewee at the other end hearing it and starting an answer.
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I’m not going to blame Zoom. I often will cut other hosts off for a variety of reasons. Perhaps because they are repeating themselves or struggling with saying something. Sometimes because I just want to move on. In general I’m looking for pace and energy in our shows and when I’m the host I’m always going to go for that. It’s the style I prefer and we’ve embraced for 19 years now. I want it to sound like an impassioned family discussion around the dinner table, or buddies debating in a bar. I really don’t want it to sound like a trial court or formal debate where each participant takes his time making a point.
I know this annoys some people and if it annoys you I’m sorry. There are many podcasts where people politely wait for everyone to finish talking. I find these mostly dull and labored but you may well prefer them. Which is, of course, perfectly fine.
I don’t want you to think I don’t care about what you think. And I always appreciate feedback. I just want you to know it’s a conscious choice and significant part of my style. At this point in my career I don’t expect much to change. There’s really no point in trying to get me to see the light. You should just find a host more to your liking.
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