WW 730: The New Windows 11

Welp. Microsoft just updated the document The Verge linked to. It no longer allows any older CPUs nor TPM 1.2.

It’s now quite firm,

Compatibility for Windows 11- Compatibility Cookbook | Microsoft Docs

@MaryJo, what are the chances Microsoft may clarify why the document was changed. Are they really dropping support for prior than Intel 8th generation / AMD Zen+? A few outlets have already published the older document, which may have been Microsoft’s impetus in changing the document.

The biggest “red flag” is that the very short CPU support list is linked right on Microsoft’s main consumer Windows 11 page. These CPU lists aren’t hidden away in an OEM document, but front and center.

This change may remove many CPUs, including those in some Surface devices, from upgrading to Windows 11. Heck, the current Surface Studio 2 cannot be upgraded to Windows 11 under these restrictions. I mean, of the 1.3 billion Windows users, this will likely exclude a double-digit percentage.

The Verge has updated their story,

Hidden away on Microsoft’s site is what’s really happening here — or so we thought, until Microsoft changed its page a couple hours after we published this story. According to the original version of the page, the true minimum requirements are TPM 1.2 and a 64-bit dual-core CPU that’s 1GHz or greater. Since TPM support can be enabled through practically any modern CPU in the BIOS settings of a machine, you shouldn’t need a separate module unless your CPU is very old.

But the new page says it requires TPM 2.0 and an processor that Microsoft has explicitly certified as compatible — which might mean everything before an 8th Gen Intel Core and AMD Ryzen 2000 won’t work. We’re following up with Microsoft now.

Microsoft linked this CPU compatibility page from their consumer page + it talks about upgrades. I don’t think it’s talking about OEMs any more: OEMs aren’t doing upgrades so much, are they?

This is a consumer-facing change, I believe.

Android apps will be in the Microsoft Store.

2 Likes

I’m convinced by @PHolder’s theory that it’ll be used for some nefarious DRM purpose under the guise of “security” since everyone is all about security now.

1 Like

Microsoft is still silent, except for a one-sentence clarification only about TPM.

We’re still waiting for explicit confirmation from Microsoft on the CPU requirement, but a rep confirms that TPM 2.0 will be mandatory, and that the original information on that page was wrong. “The referenced docs page was a mistake that has since been corrected,” an MS rep tells The Verge.

What Microsoft changed today, rather quietly:

The Intel list feels very unbalanced. Atoms, Celerons, Pentiums, Y-Series CPUs are all compatible, but an i7-7700K is not? Make it make sense, Microsoft. What does a 6-watt Pentium 4425Y have that the i7-7700K does not? Not rhetorical: actually curious.

Mary Jo & Paul, you may be our only hope to get a real answer out of Microsoft.

Guess 1: It’s not Spectre. Coffee Lake is the oldest CPU supported by Windows 11, but it has none of Intel’s silicon fixes; it’s the same as all the older CPUs that are not Windows 11 compatible, according to AnandTech.

OK, now Microsoft is claiming the lists will “evolve over time”. But they seemed firm that the i7-7700K won’t be supported when first asked.

I realize why Mary Joy & Paul make the big bucks and I’m exhausted already following this mass confusion. They keep editing documents, random updates on Twitter, various confirmations only to certain news outlets.

Why wasn’t this all settled months ago? Are minimum requirements really that hard for something that’s genuinely Windows 10 under the hood?

Steve Dispensa on Twitter: “@bdsams @zacbowden @TheMartinScott Yep, these lists (Intel, AMD, and Qualcomm) are the currently supported CPUs. The lists will evolve over time, of course, but these are the supported CPUs. https://t.co/Y26xrKvg8g” / Twitter

EDIT: many are quite upset. Some were $1000 CPUs (yes, the CPU alone) just 4 years ago, like the Ryzen Threadripper 1950X.

Windows 11 (reddit.com)

How 'bout they just evolve it to nix this whole TPM debacle for non-enterprise users?

Yes, I looked at the compatibility lists, I have a Ryzen 7 1700 - still more than enough power for photo editing and running multiple VMs - and a laptop with a Skylake Core i5. Neither of which will be supported going forward, even thouigh the Ryzen still has enough horse power for many years, at current rates.

1 Like

I"m going to just chill and hope microsoft comes to their senses on this one. meanwhile I hope the pressure keeps up on them.

2 Likes

I liked the way this episode presented windows 11. Seems that lot shows are watching or being negative. The one show in particular seems to mostly off leaked build. After being being windows insider since the start windows 10. Options about the OS change quickly

1 Like

It’s plainly restrictive. If the requirements won’t be updated, guess I’ll stick to Windows 10 for a long time and then re-consider what operating systems are available when these two systems kick the can.

Microsoft has finally become brave enough to rationalize their choice to the public,

So, what “supportability, capabilities, quality, and reliability” are they finding in Celerons & Atoms that they can’t find in a Ryzen 1st Gen or an Intel 7th Gen? Actually, genuinely curious.

Just as a point of comparison, Apple’s Monterey update will be available to many old devices, including two ISAs. Of course, some features & security features will be gated to only the newest devices (e.g., M1), but the wider OS updates will be sent to these devices:

The closest restriction is the iMac Pro, which will only support 2017 and later. I can’t imagine Apple selling a $3500 base computer today that would not support macOS 12, unlike Microsoft’s Surface Studio 2.

All right. Let’s let the world chew on this for the next few months. I do not envy anyone that covers Microsoft with any attention; they are clearly unable to answer these questions in a timely manner (e.g.,. the months & years they have been preparing Windows 11).

1 Like

The original iMac Pro was first released in August 2017, so there is no age restriction there, every iMac Pro will be upgradeable.

But, given Apple users’ mantra about Apple not leaving products, behind, that is a relatively short lifespan. I had a 2004 laptop that was running Windows 7 until 2018, when it finally died. It wasn’t powerful enough for Windows 10, but it crawled along with Windows 7 - I donated it to a friend of my wife’s who was doing night classes and needed a computer for course work, but couldn’t afford one.

My 2010 Sony laptop is still running Windows 10.

But we are talking about going to a new hardware minimum platform here. But I find the requirements “interesting”. Yes, my Ryzen 7 is powerful enough, going forward for Windows 11, theoretically - if a modern Celeron, which has a fraction of the power of my Ryzen can run Windows 11, then the Ryzen should have no problems, from a horse power perspective.

But security is the biggest weakness of modern operating systems and moving forward, this has to happen, for the good of the Internet community. I laud Microsoft for making this step, whilst at the same time cursing them for making me replace all of my PCs.

Given tight budgets and having to replace multiple devices, it just isn’t going to happen. And this will be the first time since I started using Windows that I won’t be able to upgrade my existing kit to the latest version of Windows. That is annoying and frustrating.

I either have to stick with Windows 10 for another couple of years, or switch to Linux, for example.

2 Likes

I would like to know what secret is lurking inside these certain cpu models that makes microsoft not want to support them.

They aren’t being made (at least not for mainstream uses) any more and they are beyond the 2 year corporate write down.

Thank you for correcting me. I forgot the iMac Pro is actually a new device!

I’m slowly coming to your conclusion, as well. I appreciate the new minimum for security with open arms, but it’s a bitter pill. As I’ve learned, TPM is the tip of the iceberg. Microsoft is seemingly enabling HVCI by default on Windows 11? Notably, HVCI runs much faster on Kaby Lake or Zen2 due to in-silicon features like MBEC. As shared online,

Microsoft seemingly understood how terrible the fallout would be by allowing CPU generations to be a soft floor, instead of a hard floor, in the first few days. I hope they’ll extend Windows 10 support for mainstream consumers by many years (even just match it to enterprise, so 2030-ish), thus no hardware goes out-of-support. A patched Windows 10 system is better than forcing millions to find the $$$$, time, and effort to upgrade to Windows 11.

If MS is gating CPUs in the name of security, then Windows 10 should be kept up-to-date with security patches for as reasonably possible while they roll out Windows 11.

Meanwhile they can’t build a simple feature that notes the first time an app accesses the network (or other sensitive local directories) for read and then again for write. Something as simple as “DownloadedApp123.exe is trying to write to FamilyPhoto.jpg” would be enough to completely stop most crypto malware. They’re too afraid of being tarred by the Vista UAC “debacle” (according to the “I’m a PC” ads from Apple, anyway.) Doing something REAL about crypto malware is worth way more than a bunch of theoretical Spectre mitigations, IMHO.

1 Like

That’s a really good point. Permission management on Windows is aimless and quite limited on Win32 applications, it seems. I have ~80 applications and these are, apparently, the only ones that can access my documents library.

Sigh…

//

They’ve recently posted the Windows 11 update changes, and they seem better-ish:

Windows lifecycle and servicing update - Microsoft Tech Community

The quick points I see:

  • Annual updates release in the fall
  • We can now “pause an update” (meaning an update in progress or pause receiving any updates?)
  • Upgrading to Windows 11 will be “user-initiated ‘seeker’ process” (yeah, I’ll believe it when I see it)
  • Will maintain B week (Patch Tuesday) and C week (“optional” Preview updates for next month)
  • Maintains Windows 10 will lose support in October 2025 (needs to a few years longer now)

//

MS seems to believe now some features will require more than 64 GB,

  • Storage: 64 GB* or greater available storage is required to install Windows 11.
    • Additional storage space might be required to download updates and enable specific features.

But none of the features mention a storage requirement beyond 64 GB; even DirectStorage had its 1 TB limit surreptitiously removed over the weekend (or Friday?).

New post is out, but critically, Microsoft keeps changing its documents after posting them. The yellow highlighted text was removed.

Original:

50 minutes later:

With soooooooo many PCs & laptops not being able to move to 11, combined with the end date released for 10 support, it looks like PC & component companies will have pretty great earnings over the next several years.

…gotta wonder whether Win11 REALLLLLLY needs all the hardware upgrades to run, or, whether it can really run just fine on older PCs. Could Microsoft put in some limitations to help out the PC Makers sell more hardware? Sure that is a cynical thought, but, a thought it is.

You can do that on Windows 10 now, has someone implied that won’t be possible on 11?