TWIT 806: Make Hella Happen

Beep boop - this is a robot. A new show has been posted to TWiT…

What are your thoughts about today’s show? We’d love to hear from you!

Is Karsten producing other shows? I haven’t heard him on TWiT and TWiG in a while!

First I’d like to say that I really enjoy the show and that I have been a frequent listener for last couple of months. But this time I felt the urge to set a few things straight.
Right at the beginning of the show you were talking about twitter and the cancellation of Trump. When discussing the topic you commented on free speech laws in EU countries like Germany and that we do not seem to have a problem limiting free speech because we do not have a 1st amendment.
First of all that is not true. In the German constitution the first twenty articles guarantee rights like freedom of speech, the freedom of the press, religious freedom etc.
Granted, you are basically right that German law limits freedom of speech under certain circumstances but these are also clearly defined by the constitution. The freedom of speech especially has it limits in the violation of the freedoms granted by the constitution.
For example according to the German constitution article 2, part 2, every individual has the right to life and physical integrity. Furthermore, article 3, part 3, outlaws discrimination because of “race”, ethnicity or religion.
So based on these fundamental rights and our history it makes sense that it is illegal to publicly display, utter, sell or idealize anything that is related to the Nazi ideology. And no, you cannot legally buy Nazi memorabilia in Germany especially if it shows the swastika or a number of other symbols the Nazis used.
That does not mean that the freedom of speech is not valued in Germany or that people cannot speak their mind. It just takes in consideration that ideologies like the Nazi ideology are more than words. Ideologies like that have incited violence in the past and will continue to incite violence in the present and future. Laws cannot get rid of those ideologies but they can send a clear message to the citizens of country (and to the world) that they live in a society that does not tolerate racism and fascism and that those who spread those believes will have to pay a (high) price for doing so.
And that includes platforms like Facebook, Twitter, etc.

That was very long comment (some might call it a rant) and I didn’t mean to patronize you :wink: .

Keep up the good work!


Well said. I was going to post something similar, but you brought over the main points very well.

Isn’t the difference that Congress is actually prohibited from introducing any law restricting free speech?

The UK has the Human Rights Act…

‘Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.’

but it’s then caveated…

‘The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society…’

I was repeating something I had heard; I appreciate the correction. I do think the US First Amendment is fairly unique in its clear simplicity…

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It’s in many ways the bedrock of American politics. It was also completely ignored by the infamous Alien and Sedition Acts only seven years later.

The Sedition Act resulted in the prosecution and conviction of many Jeffersonian newspaper owners who disagreed with the government

So our history with the 1st Amendment is checkered, to say the least.


I like the German version (well, I do live in Germany these days). It doesn’t stop you saying what you want in private, but you can’t promote hatred or violence in public, including racism, racial hatred or incitement to violence or murder or the glorification thereof. I think the inclusion of making the glorification of national socialism and the denial of the holocaust illegal is interesting, it certainly comes out of a dark passage in Germna history and I can understand why it is there (is this an example of an early law to stop fake news?). Pretty much anything else goes.

Although the AFD (“Alternative for German”, a right wing political party) keeps falling foul of those laws, several of its members have been censured in the Bundestag, bannished or forced to resign and have faced investigation for racial slurs, glorification of national socialism and incitement.

The laws can’t be enforced completely (and the police and army have also both been caught in a scandal with extreme right wing activits in their ranks, who were caught making “elite” groups within and stealing guns and ammunition (it is very hard to get weapons in Germany), but they are a good start for a moral basis to society.

I often find myself asking, whether the freedom of speech in America or in Germany is better? Is there such a thing as too open?

Shouldn’t free speech laws exist to protect the SPEECH WE DON’T LIKE?

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My vote for show title: “You Dont Know Jack” Denise Howell said it, but not with the same meaning, lol.

I REALLY like Denise Howell. She’s smart. She knows the law, which everyone should learn more about. When push comes to shove, its black letter law that counts, not “But YourHonor! (done in Hamilton Burger voice) I dont think thats right cause it doesnt make sense” You’re going to die poor if u wait for the law to make sense.
I wish Denise had said more. She was the voice of experience and reason there.

Take aways…
1.Thank You Leo for saying many of us do not geek out over whats new, and just want things to work. I’m not into the Super Geek side of things. I really enjoy the educated, informed journalist side of the shows

  1. There are people who work a good part of their lives working the back side of the clock for $15 bucks an hour. It really sounds privileged when someone who is working a gig as a TV/podcast Host, whines about a 1am call. How awful. Dont tell me…you had to open your own bottle of water too. People who live inside a bubble, need to get out and see the real world. Sorry Im cynical here, but it came off as being very privileged. If u dont want to be up all night, dont take the gig, its that simple
    Also, and i hate to say this…but almost all “older” men fawn over young, especially attractive women. Ive seen it so many times. It gives thme the feeling of being younger , and that they still have appeal. I understand. But its the kind of thing to keep in private. In public, it puts u on that slippery slope from elder statesman, to creepy old guy. I know, Leo, I know. You were just trying to be a gracious host. And you are a very gracious host, but there is a line somewhere out there between gracious and enamored. “Off sides, offense, number 1. 5 yard penalty, repeat 1st down.”

  2. Content…Lots of chatter about Twitter and FB banning Trump. IDK what there is to be on the fence about. It is not legal to run into a crowded theater and falsely yell fire. Inciting insurrection by broadcasting loads of falsehoods is, as i see it, the same thing. Insurrection and rioting endangers peoples lives. Would it be OK if Trump…if anyone…threatened the lives of other over twitter. Is slander protected by “free speech” NO, and NO.
    “Free Speech” does not entitle anyone to just say anything, anywhere. Its just interpreted as so by those who want to say anything, anywhere, for their own (usually harmful) causes. Same goes for the 2nd amendment.

  3. The future of CES. Virtual? in person? Must be a slow news day. What is the point of conjecturing about that? I guess its just a time honored tradition to try to predict the future. I put it in the “Who cares” department. It is what it is. I would have like to have heard more about what was at CES, not about the Virtualness of the convention.

4.Oh, and the Hellabytes. That was funny. I enjoyed it. Sounds like a religious sect out in Manitoba somewhere…The Hellabytes. lol.

I still listen to all the TWIT shows all the time, and i wish there were more advertisers. really. I learn a lot about products from listening to the shows. All these products are getting free advertising, and i wish they would step up to the plate, and back the show that backs their products. Where’s Apple? One of the reasons a lot of ppl DONT buy Apple products, is cause they have frequently been a bunch of arrogant SOB’s. Its good to be the best, but its also good to be a citizen of the world…

Thats just the way it looks from where im sitting…

beth marshall


Because this message was split off from a different thread, the title, which had @bethmarshall 's suggested title is lost. It was “I don’t know Jack”.

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Boy, its getting so that you cant even make up your own show title and look alike thread anymore! Yeash. LOL


@bethmarshall Each show has an official thread - it’s better if you don’t create competing threads. That’s confusing. I merged your thread into this one, but I didn’t notice the reference to the title - so I’ve added it to your message.

In future, stick to the official threads for commentary please.

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Leo…No problem. Some day the covid will be gone and I’ll drive up to Petaluma, and u’ll get to say “So, you’re that PITA beth lady” I used to write parodies (musical), so imitating things is in my blood.



I think there are two or three issues being lumped into one. Facebook and Twitter banning people (it’s a lot more than just President Trump) is one issue. Apple and Google banning the Parler App is a separate issue. Amazon and other backend companies dropping Parler without much notice is yet a separate issue.

I’m not going to comment on the first one because there is no tech angle in that question.

On the second one, I’m not worried about it because Parler can just make a PWA and get around both app stores. Of course one of these activist groups has sued Apple to get Signal removed from the App Store for the same thing as they removed Parler for.

The third one is the one that is the most problematic. A landlord is not responsible for the actions of their tenants, so why would a web host, credit card processor, DNS provider, or domain registrar. So I don’t buy the argument that Amazon could be held legally liable for Parler content. If so they would also be on the hook for all the bad stuff on Twitter. I think we all know all the bad stuff that happens on their platform.

Also after seeing interviews with people from Parler they do have some moderation and do kick people off their platform as well. Since they are so new they don’t have the algorithms that their longstanding competition has. It’s not like the first version of Affinity Photo had (or probably still doesn’t) have all the features of an established giant like Photoshop. But after years go by they get better and start to catch up. I see Parler as the same. When these new systems first start the people that are going to join are the people either tired of what they are using or people who aren’t using the established products (Facebook and Twitter). So if you want competition you need to allow the new products to grow just like Twitter and Facebook were allowed to grow.

Also, there is a court case that in some circumstances the First Amendment applied to private companies. I’m sure Denise doesn’t know about it, because who knows about every case. It is Marsh v. Alabama, 326 U.S. 501 (1946), the Supreme Court held that a person distributing religious literature on the sidewalk of a “company town” was protected by the First Amendment rights of freedom of the press and religion and could not be arrested for trespass. For those who don’t know a Company Town is a town where the company owns the entire town. So the company owns everything including the roads, houses, and businesses. It could be argued that ISP’s, DNS, Registrar, and web hosting companies would be the same as a company town.

And yet, they’re the most valuable company in the world and wildly successful :joy:

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Amazon is a private company. Should they be compelled to do business with a company they don’t want to work with and that violates their terms of service? Should Leo have to advertise any brand that wants to appear on the network?


If they have a contract they should be obligated to follow it. If Parler were in violation of the TOS then so is Twitter. At the very least Amazon should have followed the contract and given them 30 days notice. It will be very interesting to see how the court case plays out.

As for your second question if Leo accepts the contract I would expect that contract to be followed.

There is also a difference between the share of big website hosting that Amazon controls and the size of the podcast advertising market Leo controls. That plays into it as well.

Yes, that’s why free speech laws exist. No one needs a law to protect speech everyone agrees with.

How do you know this?

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It’s part of Parler’s lawsuit against Amazon. It’s why they wanted an injunction to be put back on Amazon until they could find a new host.