TWIT 801: I Can't Believe It's Not Minecraft

Beep boop - this is a robot. A new show has been posted to TWiT…

What are your thoughts about today’s show? We’d love to hear from you!

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Stellar selection of guests this week!

@Leo Thank you for having David Pogue on this episode. David was the Keynote Speaker at the Brooklyn Technology Forum back in (I think) 2008. It was the first time I had heard of him and have been a fan since. He is so knowledgeable and entertaining at the same time. Totally understand how busy he is, but would love to see him on TWIT more often. Maybe even a MacBreak Weekly episode, hint hint.

Rich on Tech is great also. First saw him on The Tech Guy during Leo’s vacation. Follow him on Social media now.

Shout out to Ashley Esqueda as well.

Great line up on this episode. Still missing @Lory though and it’s only been a week.


Great panel this week! Show absolutely didn’t feel as long as it was.

Wanted to add my perspective on Stadia. Google chose a tough uphill battle by architecting Stadia as they did - they’re essentially trying to introduce a fifth gaming ecosystem into the world. Contrast this to Nvidia’s GeForce Now or XCloud, which don’t require any effort from the developer, and the end user gets to play with other gamers on either PC or XBL seamlessly. I see Stadia has typical “party chat” functionality. I’d bet there are less than 100 people worldwide using that feature at any point.

Putting aside the technical limitations of game streaming, I just can’t see Google bootstrapping a new ecosystem. I’m sure they’ll attract casual gamers but that’s not going to create a sufficient playerbase to support this kind of endeavor. It didn’t work for Valve, Nokia, or any of the myriad of consoles that have failed at the feet of the major gaming companies.

If you were to build a social network what features would it have? How would you deal with user data? Would it be decentralized? How would you deal with contraversial issues? What approach would you take to differentiate from competitors?

Oh the topic of Stadia, comparing it’s latency to Zoom’s doesn’t make sense because Zoom is more variable than Stadia because it’s connecting between you and Google’s servers and back while on Zoom you’re dealing with latency between you and their severs and the other end of the call and back. Also Google generally has servers directly in the ISPs datacenters. Aren’t I correct? Since Stadia requires more bandwidth wouldn’t it also differ more based on the topology of your network? I subscribed to Stadia when it first came out and had no problems.

Yea that was a silly comparison. Network latency really doesn’t matter enough for applications like Skype or Zoom for those companies to put real money into addressing.

I don’t believe Stadia maintains equipment at ISP facilities. If that was the case then you’d see ~1ms of latency to the service. Plus, many ISPs simply co-locate equipment at facilities owned by companies like Equinix or Tierpoint rather than running their own facility in each area. I believe Stadia runs on Google’s GCP service which maintains physical presence equivalent to the other 1st tier IaaS providers (Ashburn, Chicago, Seattle etc).

To be honest, latency has been acceptable for game streaming since the mid 2000s when companies like Citrix and game dev studios put resources into coming up with latency mitigation techniques. The company OnLive launched in 2010 and was perfectly usable at the time for non-competitive gaming, just as today’s solutions are.

But wouldn’t the increase in graphics in games effect the latency?

With the reputation David Pogue had I expected so much better from him: panotical surveillance-capital dystopia makes his article research easier?:face_vomiting: I’m so glad Ashley Esqueda was there to talk him down from his stoogery. It’s good that Leo gave it an airing in order to expose Pogue’s narcissism, because obviously Pogue lives in a disturbingly effective bubble endangering what little protection so many others function by shaking head balefully …I suppose I’ll tack on by way of contrast a congratulations to Leo for his keeping his heart alive and mind sharp for all this time… Leo cut to the heart of the matter pointing out that all the government has to do is buy the data from private corporations and it’s potentially even more politically asphyxiating as dragnet surveillance given at least nominal restrictions on direct government intrusion into private communications under the US Constitution. By Pogue’s lights, laundering it through a corporation should not just make it ignored but celebrated!

TikTok is IMO far from any “bubbling-up” of innovation. It had state backing and became a flash-fire in a relative vacuum of Chinese apps. Vine was already killed years ago, then came Snapchat with half a privacy clue. TikTok has throngs of users for whom making noises about privacy could cost them their health, freedom, and even their life; meanwhile, every money-grubber in the West is scurrying toward the eyeballs in a mad-dash to one-up one another in a VC-pleasing Olympics of self-abasement. Discussing TikTok on even footing with something like Snapchat is IMO like discussing a stone sculpture’s skill at the instrument by which the living human musician who inspired its form forged a notable career.

I do definitely appreciate Pogue’s correction of Leo’s initial pass simply reading Pichai’s response an apology, as Timnit has countered. He also caught Leo’s teeing up the FTC lawsuit as a reneg, when in fact not only does the FTC’s power cover it, but they specifically reiterated that in the decision itself. Props to Pogue for his comprehensive reading in the historical context of his knowledge of the space and for chasing down and surfacing that citation.

But the reason why “stealing” is different now is because of lock-in feeding into self-reinforcing business models harmful to the bedrock of society whose even just business rules of engagement they undercut, no longer merely detrimental to a given business sector.

P.S. Congrats to Rich DeMuro on his intimidating phalanx of gleaming-white daggers for teeth. My blood is sour, take my word for it.

Guessing by “graphics” you mean display resolution. Higher resolution requires more bandwidth since you’re sending more pixels down the pipe, but not lower latency. Bandwidth and latency are two very different metrics.

I too was surprised that @Leo didn’t point out that the TikTok we have today is a result of parent company Bytedance leveraging their success with Douyin in China to go and buy the app for nearly $1B to lock up the user base, the sharing innovation such as it is, and the music licenses— eventually merging everything into one service.

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I should of been a little more specific. Resolution and other graphics related things

I trust Apple and Microsoft far more than Google but, surprisingly, I’d trust Google over FastMail. You wouldn’t use a Chinese email provider so why, given the Australian encryption law mandating a backdoor, would you trust FastMail?

@Leo do you know if rich demuro is on nextstars WGN? not wgn America just wgn.

I loved when they demoed latency. It’s been my struggle as an online music teacher since March. Only difference is my students aren’t using the latest tech and are on almost rural connections.


I do not @zachdgowen

You should watch Alex Lindsay’s Office Hours, he does an hour with educators on Saturdays.

Thanks. I’ll look out for that.

Ahoy, hoy.

Well, Im not waiting for the official posting. Todays TWIT was a great show. I think that having 2 currently active broadcast journalists really helps the flow, as they have a sense oif timing, and they ask questions too. Leo didnt have to lead the conversation all the time…IMHO, of course, I dont mean to say anything less of the other ppl on TWIT…just if flowed really well.

BTW… Leo…thanks for the shout out…LOL. I didnt mean to say that you were condescending all the time…i just thought you were a bit over thr top about the M1 chip. Im just getting used to your robust enthusiasm! (another LOL) And sometimes it seems you are trying to be “controversial” at the top of “The Tech Guy”. If you really need more callers, I’ll call in.

I think (honestly) that you especially gracious to your guests, and SO patient with your callers. And it is exceptional that you thank your advertisers. I mean, obviously partly to encourage them to stay on board, but also its just a nice gesture.

Needles to say, I do listen (watch the live broadcasts) all the time.

beth marshall
paso robles (the other CA wine country)


I actually stopped watching this episode less than half way through. I am not a fan of any of the guests. When David made it clear he doesn’t have even a foggy notion how passwords are stored/hashed I rolled my eyes so hard they nearly fell out of my head. In the pre-show Rich and Ashley seemed to be competing for who could out blather the other. The level of Apple worship of late has gone way beyond the pale… @Leo either needs to become a full time Apple shill network, and I’ll stop watching, or go a few months without talking about Apple in any way. You do not need to spend 20 minutes talking about Apple’s overly expensive purse/headphones when the Sony XM4’s are much better and are currently on sale for half the price and actually come with a case that protects them as well as a price included analog cable (and airplane adapter.)