TWIT 773: The Duchess of Sealand

I don’t watch either. I watch Tagesschau, ZDF Heute, RTL News, Kabel 1 News and read a couple of German newspapers.

But, you don’t need to listen to Fox, or CNN, in fact, having seen a few snippets from both, I’d say that neither should be used for getting a balanced view of the news. This goes back to the main point in my previous post, you should be getting news neutrally, without a political bias. If you’d said Reuters, that would be another matter.

I’ve screamed at my phone, because TWiT have gotten some IT fact wrong, nobody is perfect - especially Jeff Jarvis, when it comes to privacy and Europe. But in general they seem very good and, from a non-US listener’s point of view, very neutral in their coverage of US happenings, compared to what the mainly international press reports.

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That’s true. I used the term as a tongue-in-cheek stand-in for the host of beliefs held by the right. Generally, I am with you: let’s hear all the voices. However, there is such a thing as the paradox of tolerance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance).

Btw FOX: their actual journalistic news can be pretty good. It’s their opinion segments and website that seem ill-guided and misrepresented by the channel itself.

That said, we are not that far off on the subject, I believe: rather integrate, discuss, and convince than write off. But then again, that would be a 100% political show which the network might not want to do.

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I’m about 2/3’s of the way through 774, and it’s been a non-stop, Cali-style social justice commentary. I’m a listener for over 10 years, have met Leo in person while in that area, but I think I’m done. There’s no “tech” anymore, in This Week in Tech.

As stated, if you must do this, it would be nice if it wasn’t just an echo chamber of wildly left people, who believe that the feds should regulate every aspect of business and our lives.

Anyway, I’ll be unsubscribing to the podcast. It’s a little sad, but there are too many options out there, Youtube channels, other podcasts, now, which actually focus on tech. It’s become exhausting to have to keep fast-forwarding through the discussion, to get past the virtual signaling, to some kind of technology-related content.

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Without trying to poke or sound confrontational - may I ask what the issue is with social justice? I mean - I would think everyone would want social (or, indeed, all kinds of ) justice. At a minimum - justice acknowledges that a wrong (of any kind) was committed and - if it can’t compel a restitution, at least it can validate the wrong committed.

Again - not trying to provoke, but I find that I lack the necessary perspective to understand why there is a resistance to the concept of social justice.

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agreed, but would be nice if there was a little more tech in the mix. I do remember they had a Fox news guy (who was not particularly conservative or libertarian) on a podcast or two.

Just to be clear, we have plenty of conservatives on all the time. What people mean when they say “conservative” is Trump-supporters. That’s not going to happen. Sorry.

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Take Note that this chat is for TWIT 773, 31 May and Not TWIT 774 07 June.

Indeed: thank you, Leo!

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I wish the poster had not withdrawn his comments. I would like the address a statement that was made.

Social justice should be based around facts and not emotion
That’s very easy to suggest, but almost impossible in practice - simply because humans have emotions and there is a palpable sense of pain when someone is ‘wronged’. There will never be a ‘complete’ picture of a set of circumstances for very much a similar reason - human beings lack the ability to see all outcomes and view all perspectives.

While this may be a bit hokey - the computer game Ultima 4 had, what I believe is, the best definition of justice - Truth tempered by Love. Setting aside video game conventions for a moment - that definition recognizes that truth in and of itself does not provide justice. Justice, at a core, is a kind of healing or restitution for someone who has suffered a wrong - either by the application of a consequence to the perpetrator or by effecting a restoration (to whatever degree) to the victim.

Within the context of technology - what I see is an increasing awareness of how tech is a tool and the uses to which that tool is being applied. Those of us who have followed technology for a long time did not foresee the incredible changes that have been wrought - both for good and for ill. When the sale of a smart phone necessitates human lives to work in crushing conditions - at some point that cannot be ignored. When a platform viewed as a way for long-distance friends to keep in touch becomes a conduit for hate and misinformation - that is worthy of discussion by technologists in any forum.

There are perspectives that I have heard on shows that I have not agreed with. Only one host has ever caused me to stop listening to their show - and that has not been around for several years. I regret my choice in hindsight because it cost me a perspective that could have informed my point of view.

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I just wanted to say looking at the discussions from viewpoint of an outsider (somebody who lives outside the USA) that they seem to be very neutral.

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guess they just aren’t noticed or I unsubscribed the podcasts they are usually on. By the way, not a Trump supporter here, I am more akin to Libertarian, but I also don’t hate anyone who doesn’t share my views

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you can click the Edit button: Respectfully, you’ve had conservatives on TWiT? I’ve heard every episode for years beyond count, and have no memory of it, so perhaps it was a very long time ago. I feel as if I’ve heard nothing but political agreement on that particular show.

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Your point is understood, I think that most of us would just rather hear stuff the podcast is supposed to be about, we can go to political pages or listen to news, media on radio or TV for the other stuff. Personally I like to discuss political stuff, but I listen to stuff like this for education and a little entertainment. But then, everyone can choose to listen or not for whatever reason …

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Thank goodness! :blush::100:

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So this “community” should only allow one political side? Does that go for advertisers as well?

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I hesitate to make this post, because I do not want to beat a dead horse… But it is interesting to see a few others ask these questions here…

I joined this forum back in Oct 2019. I joined it to discuss tech, not politics. There have been tons of political posts since then (since I joined), and I stayed out of all of them.

Sometimes I would start to say something, but I just bit my tongue and did not make my post. Despite recent events, I peronally am not one to discuss politics on a forum. Any forum… Also, it has been my experience that people on the left are not nearly as tolerant as they pretend to be. So, most of the time I just decided to stay outta those topics. Why get dragged into something…

On the flip side, I don’t really care to hear politics when I listen to shows about a specific topic - namely tech in this case.

But, I have noticed that most people posting political comments on this very forum are all on the left, and they are not tolerant of any other view point. Not at all.

Well, I finally couldn’t help myself and jumped into a political thread about a month ago. The topic of the thread was Right/Left views, or something like that. And, it WAS a thread soley about politics.

Guess what… My posts on the thread kept getting flagged. Then, removed, and then the entire thread was taken down. Even other people questioned why it was happening. I posted nothing bad at all… Just another point of view.

Then, there was another political thread I commented on a week or two ago. I think the only reason nothing got flagged on that thread was because Leo himself commented on the thread a few times. But, even on that thread, it is obvious that many people on the left side of things are not tolerant of any other point of view.

That intolerance to other view points seems to have changed in the last 10 to 15 years. We used to agree to disagree. Not anymore. Now, it is micro-aggression “this” and you cannot make ANYONE uncomfortable “that” on college campuses.

The real world doesn’t work like that, but we are raising a bunch of snowflakes who go red with rage and just shut down anyone that does not agree with them… Don’t believe me? Look at what happens when someone who has a conservative view is invited to speak on a college campus and tries to go…

This forum does not seem to be friendly to any other points of view that do not lean left either… Silent people who flag posts that they disagree with, for no other reason, illustrates this. They won’t publicly discuss why they disagree. It is so much easier to have you removed…

That is the last time I will say it, because I don’t wanna be “that guy.” But, it is so painfully obvious that even a blind person can see it.

I personally only listen to the Techguy Podcasts because too many of the other TWIT ones are filled with too much politics. That probably won’t change either.

Heck, there was another older thread that bounced up today. When I looked at it, it seems that for every person asking for politics to be taken out of a podcast, there is someone else who asks that things be kept as is. So, nothing is likely to change…

All I am saying is that when a show/celebrity makes his politics known and really gets into it, it alienates half your audience right off the bat. That is true when a celebrity does it, and it is true here as well…

Just because someone can get on tv and give their point of view does not invalidate the opinions of many other people who do not have a tv show and have their own points of view (that are different). But, what it does do is turn off a lot of people to your product. For example… There are some actors I refuse to watch because they are so vocal, and their beliefs are way out there to me. I refuse to pay my money to support that person.

I have enjoyed listening to Leo for over 20 years. Now, he lives in California, which greatly increases the odds that his point of view leaned to the left. But, it never was really apparent in the stuff he did. And, I liked that about him a lot.

But, in the past 3 or 4 months, that is no longer true, and it really is disappointing. Between some of the TWIT podcasts and comments on this forum, it is VERY disappointing.

I have received several private messages after the two political threads I did jump in on. And, based on quite a few of them, it seems that many people are deciding to leave this forum, or are considering doing so… Why? Because of the politics and lack of tolerance for another point of view here…

And, if ya wanna say: “Good riddance, we didn’t need them here anyway…” Well, that is your right to do so. You may not miss any of them. And, I am sure you won’t.

But, I just wanted to throw that out there… Because it is happening. They came here because TECH is fun, or they had questions concerning tech… They did not come to be ostracized for believing what they believe in if it differs from the left viewpoint here on the forum.

The fun of this forum is mostly gone for me too, after what has happened in the last 3 weeks. I am sure most of the people here won’t miss me if I do not come back either.

But, I wanted to make this post because the lack of tolerance by people who think of themselves as so tolerant is startling. And, it is affecting many people here.

I would make the suggestion that NO politics be discussed here. I am on many, many other internet forums, and several have that specific rule. It has caused too much strife on those forums in the past, and it is not a topic that that ever ends well.

Just my 2 cents…

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Guys, guys, guys - this grows a bit out of proportion. Don’t make politics the be all and end all. And don’t throw out the baby with the bath water refusing to talk about it either.

Of course, politics will come up in a tech discussion that looks behind buttons and GHz and onto societal topics. Much of the tech only becomes interesting if you consider not its personal but societal use. There are plenty of YouTubers who are happy to rehash their umpteenth mobile review without much context. I am glad that TWiT goes further. Would not listen otherwise.

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I do sometimes suffer from the “someone is wrong on the Internet” syndrome.


But mostly I just try to remember opinions aren’t truth, and I am not the arbiter of truth or opinion.

My solution to some of the posts I would find less well considered has been to be less and less involved on these forums, to the point that I have restarted this post many times and am wondering if I should even bother to post it at all. I don’t find the content of the shows objectionable in any way, so it’s not a complaint about @Leo or the content.

Hopefully, one day, 'rona will pass, people will get more involved with “real life” again, and will have too little free time to be all fired up about someone being wrong on a netcast on the Internet.

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I appreciate your point of view, and your civil tone.
After writing, I decided that there was no point posting stuff that might antagonize; my goal from the beginning was simply to let someone at TWiT know that as a fairly hard-core libertarian, I feel that my point of view is completely unrepresented, and that the subject matter of the show had drifted away from what originally compelled me to subscribe to it, way back when.

We can disagree and still be okay!
Cheers
–Ray

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That was Clayton Morris, former host of Fox & Friends Weekend. He was an affable fellow, but he seems to have run afoul of the law in the past year or two as a result of shady business practices related to his company Morris Invest, which purported to sell turn-key rental properties. He has since decamped to Portugal. Some web searching will turn up all the details.

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