The future of New York City

I can buy or rent a car, just like you.

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I have a 4 bedroom house in a safe quiet neighborhood for $370K. Nearly brand new with excellent schools, parks, and very low crime. You can not get any of those things for that price in NYC. Not to mention the added problem of noise and escalating crime.

I think that @ChrisKez is right - debating this endlessly is pointless. Clearly both cities and suburbs have their benefits.


Oh so you have to spend $50/day to rent a car if you have to venture outside your wonderful city and the cost of gas? What’s my cost — zero. That is freedom.

My only point is that suburban areas are the future, cities are the past. Look at the results from all the home builders that reported earnings. Look at all the government data on new home sales in the middle of pandemic and recession.

Yes, I’ve heard that before. After every economic downturn. After 9/11. These debates have been taking place endlessly. At the end of the day, the USA is rapidly urbanizing and has been for centuries, along with the rest of the planet.

Have a wonderful day.

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Remote work wasn’t available after 9/11. The past does not determine the future. This reminds me of people in 2007 that said “housing prices can not fall” because they didn’t in 2001.

I also don’t have to deal with stuff like this in my town. But don’t worry, I am sure all your excessive tax dollars will take care of it.

Almost 92% of population growth within metropolitan areas as been in the suburbs and exurbs from 2010-2018 — US census data.

Please, both of you (@AppleFan782 and @Joe) , go to your respective corners and stay there, and enjoy it as your home :wink: This argument must end here so I declare you’re both wrong and you’re both right and none of the rest of us have placed any bets on the outcome.


Sounds good, will do. :slight_smile:

Big cities are hellholes

You know what they say… no accounting for taste. I grew up in a village and as a nerd, all the cool dial up servers were only in bigger cities. This made me anxious to live in one. And I did… for long enough to appreciate the difference. Now I live in suburbia and rarely miss the bustle of the city, but I can see both sides and wouldn’t judge anyone for their choice for one or the other.


Exactly, I love living in rural small towns, directly in the countryside. You couldn’t pay me enough to live in a major city. But that is my choice, it doesn’t mean it is the right choice for everyone.

As an aside, even though we are living rurally, we actually got rid of one of our cars last year. My wife switched to an e-cargobike and rides the 20 miles to work and back on it every day, sun, rain or snow. When the weather is very bad, she will walk to the local train station and catch the train to the city. The train journey takes only about 20 minutes, but with the walking at both ends, she isn’t any quicker than taking the bike. But I think she has used the train maybe 6 times last year.

The bike shop were a little out of their depth, they said the bike would be fine and they had good experience with it, but I don’t think they actually believed my wife, that she would be riding 40 - 50 miles a day on it! Within 3 months, it was the highest mileage ebike they had on their books! In the first year, she has had 2 new chains, 1 new gear cassette at the back, new pads and discs and the centre stand has had to be replaced twice, that seems to be a manufacturing defect, the new one is a different design.

When I briefly worked in the local city, I’d walk to the station, catch the train and then walk across the city to my office every day. We were looking at getting rid of my car at that point, but then I got offered a better job at the next town over.

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And I have a 3 bedroom house, with an acre of land for around $140,000, excellent schools, directly adjacent to several forests, a river and a canal, walking distance to the local station, 20 minutes to the centre of the next city. Crime is nearly non-existent, I think the number of assaults in the region is in single or 2 figures for the year and there is no gun crime and I think the last murder was 2017.

I still wave and smile and say hello, when I see a police officer here.

Not exactly. You still had to buy the car, you still have to pay for its upkeep, insurance, servicing, tyres etc.

If @Joe rents a car for a week a year, that is a lot less than you spend on the cars upkeep for the year, not counting the initial purchase price, depreciation etc. You just have the convinience of having the car available 24/7, without having to rent it or use a car sharing scheme.

I was doing remote working back in the 90s, so, yes, it was available after 9/11. Maybe not with the video-conferencing we now have… Hmm, actually, I was more productive back then, because I wasn’t being interrupted every 5 minutes with video calls and online conferences, I just got my head down and did my work. As long as I delivered, that was all that counted. Today, with everybody trying to work from home, some managers are over doing it by having constant online meetings, lowering everyone’s productivity.

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Retail now leaving New York City in droves, according to NYT. This city’s future is extremely grim. My advice to anyone who lives there: LEAVE NOW! — Do not believe the comments from the urbanists trying to justify NYC’s cost/benefits model.

From NYT story

“Large retail chains are abandoning New York, a sign of how badly the pandemic has hurt the city’s economy. With astronomical rents, no tourists and few commuters, “there’s no reason to do business in New York,”

“I can do the same volume in Florida in the same square feet as I would have in New York, with my expenses being much less. The idea was that branding and locations were important, but the expense of being in this city has overtaken the marketing group that says you have to be there.”

I couldn’t agree more. There is zero credible reason to.


Aww. We actually agreed on something last week, AppleFan. I had hopes for you. But, alas…

Many New Yorkers will be happy if large retail chains leave. They’ve been wrecking what makes NYC the awesome place that it is. I am more interested in our mom and pop businesses coming back and surviving/thriving.

I’ve been here 20 years, through 9/11 and all the blackouts/hurricanes, etc. NYC is not everyone’s cup of tea. If you don’t see the benefits, you should leave. That’ll give those of us who like it more room :slight_smile:


Retail is failing all over… it was unsteady before this pandemic (thank you Amazon) but now it’s a crisis. This is not a big city thing, it’s an economics thing. Maybe go watch some of the videos on YouTube by “Company Man”…


I think you’re great Mary Jo. But when the wealthy and these high end retail shops leave, NYC’s tax revenue will go down dramatically. That means people like you will have to pay even more in taxes than your already high taxes or city services will be cut. It’s not a good thing. If it was Andrew Cuomo would be saying “don’t let the door hit you on your way out” instead of offering people drinks (maybe he can use one of your beer picks!) to come back.

You will see in 4 years Mary Jo what NYC will become. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.