Rethinking Car Ownership

General Discussion
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EVs are great, but they aren’t an alternative to owning ICE car. We need to get away from personal car ownership and improve public transport for long distance and short distance, then have EV pools for when you really need a car and a bus or taxi won’t do it.

I currently have a diesel and I used to have to drive long distances for work - 130.000 kilometers a year. Thankfully, that has changed, but I am now at the other end, no longer a consultant driving to customers, but just riding 10Ks a day to work on my bicycle. I use the car for the weekend shop or moving big stuff around. We got rid of one car already and we will probably run this one into the ground, as it isn’t worth selling it. When it is gone, I am seriously looking at just renting a car when I need it and using a cargo bike or a taxi for the shopping - a taxi, once a week to carry the shopping home - would work out cheaper than buying a new car, for example. And a rental for long trips, like holiday. I can walk into town and get a train into the city…

But we have nearly a century of being pushed into the “paradise” of car ownership, even though the roads are over crowded and it is anything but a pleasure to drive these days. We need a reset. Use a car, where it makes sense - people living out on the land with poor public transport and long distances will probably still need a car, but who needs a car in a city, let alone an SUV or a lifted truck? Most could get away with walking, riding or taking public transport, freeing up the roads for those that have no other choice, but to drive. But petrolhead culture is too ingrained these days.

We are moving towards self-driving, the fewer cars on the road, the easier that goal is, as there are less idiots to cope with. But it needs a reset in our thinking. Auto manufacturers currently only really make money by selling new vehicles, so they push the “need” to have a vehicle. We need to look at it differently, they need to make their money through renting their vehicles out for trips. If I need to go somewhere, I summon a car (or a taxi), when I am done, the next person gets it for their trip. When I come back, I do the same again, in the reverse direction.

It could mean having staggered starting times at businesses, so that the fleet can be better utilised - not having 10x as many cars as needed, because there is a peak of people driving to work for 8am and driving home at 5pm. We also need to invest in public transport, if PT is bad, nobody will use it, if the streets are clogged and PT can’t move any quicker than a car, people won’t use it… We need priority lanes for PT, which are kept clear - combined cycle and bus lanes, for example, that are physically separated from automobile lanes.

It is a big change and many have car culture so ingrained that it will be a hard move. I love cars, but the traffic has changed so much over the last 30 years, I actually loathe getting into the car to go anywhere these days, I prefer to take the train into the city and I use my bike to get to work or around town.

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As a diehard petrolhead, I couldn’t agree more. Jay Leno said it best when discussing EVs - (paraphrasing) in the early 20th century when the horse was still primarily used for transportation, there was talk about how the automobile would destroy the experience of horse riding for those that enjoy it. But the opposite became true, the horse stopped being used as a literal workhorse and started being exclusively used for recreation. The ICE will go the same way - regional motorsport will continue to thrive for decades.

It is, however, important to note the economic powerhouse the automobile has been for the last ~70 years (at least in my country). I look outside now and I see probably millions of dollars worth of debt parked all up and down the street. So not only do the manufacturers have incentive to sell, but government also has incentive to provide facilities for automobiles. We need to be careful and consider how that market capitalization would be replaced in such a PT utopia.

I forget which manufacturer it was, but they were trialing a sort of group leasing program where several individuals would timeshare a vehicle while the manufacturer retained ownership. Innovative financial solutions like that.

I actually think the pendulum is starting to swing the other way. Anecdotally, young people seem less excited about the prospect of getting behind the wheel and see it as a financial hassle more than anything.

Personally, I’m a suburbanite with family and friends spread far and wide. The ICE is still the only solution for me. Having done the math, it’s economically infeasible to depend on rideshare and rental services compared to vehicle ownership. I have an EV that I use locally, and if I’m heading to the city then I’ll usually take regional rail which is quite good in my area.

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Many community councils in Germany are organising “public” EVs. Our town has a pair, you can book them for trips, such as shopping etc. much like the private car sharing schemes in bigger cities, where they have hundreds of cars dotted about the city that people can use. You book a car in the app, walk up to the car, hold your phone against the sensor and it unlocks and you can drive away.

There are many ways that this sort of thing can work, but it means that auto manufacturers will need to look for other areas in which they can make money - building buses and trains, for example. If the requirements for those go through the roof as PT infrastructure is built out, again, after having been seriously neglected since the 1950s in many countries, there will be money to be made in that area.

PT is also more sustainable, you have more people using less space and less energy to get from A to B. It also means that we will be fitter, as we walk to bus stops or train stations, instead of waddling out the house to the car and waddling from the car into the office, for example - or less need for gym memberships, as we start to naturally stay fit, again…

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We, in California, need to use cars due to the large size of the state and the availability of so many niceties within driving distance. My wife and I drive Hybrid cars (Toyota PriusV’s) which get around 40 miles (64 km) per gallon. We think nothing of driving 380 miles to Southern California to visit grandkids. We drive to the ocean, to the mountains, to wineries etc etc. Public transport in Ca is dismal due to the size of the state

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I have a diesel Qashqai and i get around 70mpg, more on a good run, but I mainly ride the bike or take public transport these days.

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I love driving our three EVs (BMW i5 for me, Mini Cooper for Lisa, Chevy Bolt for Michael) and my e-bike is so much fun to ride I ride much more often.

But I do agree with you, the idea of private car ownership is doomed. Frankly, car culture in general has done incredible damage to our cities and countryside. We’ve become inured to it, but both are scarred with traffic, freeways, roads, and parking lots. Unfrotunately, we are in so deep I don’t see a way out.

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Agree with @big_D . This is actually how I lived when I was in Bristol and London in the 90s. Had no car, used public transport and cycled, rented a car if I went away for a weekend. I used to commute to work on the river bus on the Thames.

But we now live in rural UK, so no public transport, and no chance IMO that autonomous driving will ever work as there are miles of narrow lanes around us. No road markings, and signage that’s usually obscured by hedges. So unclear to me how people here ever move away from private cars.

We do have some public EVs you can rent in a town not too far away. Might give one a go, try it out.

Lanes
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In 2015 my 11 year old car died. Before replacing it I decided to see if I could get along without it. Thanks to an E-bike, Occasional Lyft, and grocery delivery I am getting along just fine. I have extra cash in my pocket from no insurance and repairs.WIN,WIN!

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Remember the Jetsons :joy: