TWIT 748: The BAT FAANGs

I see what you are saying and agree that there is racism everyday against all races that walk the Earth but this is past that. My main thing is that there are things that happen sometimes that has no ridiculous underlining motive. If there was factual evidence that Liberty Media and the Atlanta Braves moved from Atlanta because they where racist we would know and it’s not like they moved the stadium across the state. It literally sits less that a mile outside Atlanta.

I like Christina but I am just saying she needs to be more careful. How many times have we heard Rene Ritchie fuss about and set records straight because media outlets report something false about Apple stating it is fact. This is the same exact thing. She should have said “It is in my opinion” not “That is a fact.” We can’t assume that because of things in the past that all people or organizations are guilty of the same thing when maybe they are not. That is why the country is the way it is now. How do we change that narrative? We report the right way. We don’t state things as fact without the evidence to go along with it. It is spreading false narratives.

Well, you would have to ask Christina what evidence she has, but singling out this single claim kind of fascinates me. Lots of people make lots of claims on TWiT that are not immediately sourced and corroborated, and I’m assuming you don’t evaluate each one of them based on whether or not you’re aware of supporting evidence. I think it’s laudable to desire footnotes, sources, and further reading for all factual claims made on the show (or any podcast or broadcast), but I think it’s strange to plant a flag on this one.

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No, I have heard them. I have said something in the IRC like others have. These forums are a place for feedback and I have it. Don’t assume something is fact because of the past. Companies, people, etc… break cycles. That is how everything progresses and evolves. It is feedback mainly to her because now I am sure someone who doesn’t follow baseball that watches TWiT thinks the Braves are this racist driven organization and it’s not right.

Also, people make mistakes and maybe she didn’t mean it how it sounded but you have to be careful. That’s all I am saying.

And you don’t follow me on Twitter, Facebook, etc… so don’t assume I have not sounded off before. You probably don’t even know my IRC name.

I think the point is you’re doing exactly the same thing you’re chastising Christina for.
Your argument is “Christina should not have said this was a fact, because it is her opinion”
And then you say “This thing did not happen because of racism”

You provided no proof beyond the fact that you’re a fan of baseball. Why should I believe you over Christina? Neither of you backed up your arguments with any facts.

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In everything I wrote how many times did I say it was a fact why they moved. I said what they told everyone.

Don’t get the wrong idea, I love listening to Christina. She is great. I listen to Rocket with her and Brianna Wu. She just did something that should not be done in saying something is a fact when it’s more of an opinion. Trust me, if this was an absolute thing we would have heard about it by now.

You sort of just proved my point for me though. You’re chastising Christina for not backing up her claims with facts, stating a counterpoint, and admitting you don’t have any facts to back it up, and in fact ending your claim with “trust me”. I just hope you see the clash of your points here.

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So, if the Braves did in fact move from Atlanta because of racism, do you not think it would have been reported before Sunday. And When I say “trust me” it is different than saying “fact.” I guess different people can take it differently.

Look, we can keep going in a circle all you want. All I am saying is that if you are a journalist or someone speaking to a large group of people about a subject, you should not say you know something is a fact without something to fall back on as far a proof. That’s it.

As for the move, Liberty Media and the Braves did something brilliant that will not only benefit Cobb County and the Braves, bit it will benefit every Braves fan there is. I wish they would have done this long ago. You are going to see lots of professional teams do this. The Panthers are about to do it and move from Charlotte to right outside Charlotte if everything goes through.

I kind of feel like “Futurist” is a made up job lol.
Good episode though, some interesting points, mostly now I’m interested in what Magic Leap are up to.

Didn’t your mother ever teach you if you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all?

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True! In hindsight I should have kept this opinion to myself!! Live and learn…

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It’s fine to have an opinion, but here we’re all about civility and conversation. If you disagree with someone’s points then address that. Blanket negative statements about our hosts are both unhelpful and hurtful.

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Agreed and understood - not sure what set me off like that…not usual for me! Thanks

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Unfortunately not. Neo right-wing parties keep cropping up, just look at the AfD in Germany, which skitters on the borderline of being banned as a political party, because of what its politicians say. Several of their candidates have been dropped, because they overstepped the line into hate speech.

BUT, for those of us interested in IT, the problem is even worse. Just look at Cathy O’Neil’s Weapons of Math Destruction. Algorithms are being designed and implemented, that aren’t necessarily in-and-of-themselves racist, but they need data to work and very often, without thinking, the people fill the datasets with “racist” information. They take historical data for medical histories, because they need a working basis in order to function.

They then get fed information that a certain area has a high rate of dental problems, for example, so if you come from that area you pay more for dental insurance, but the only reason why there were more, expensive dental problems is that the area was earlier a solely black community that couldn’t afford regular dental checkups, so they only went to the dentist when there was a major problem and they had no other option. The same can be shown for vaccination, certain diseases related to poverty. Education and chances of getting into university or getting a job are also often down to racially biased historical data. Or even worse, the known problem with the system used by the courts to work out whether somebody will re-offend.

The people writing the algorithm did so with the best intentions and no racism in mind. But then they have to take the only historical data that is available, and even if they leave race out of it, the results are still racist due to outlying data - for example if you grew up in a ghetto, the offender profiling system will see a lot of crime in that area and a lot of re-offending, so you will be automatically labelled as a possible re-offender and get a longer sentence. You come from a rich, privilleged suburb or gated community, heck there is hardly any crime there and no evidence of re-offending, so you get a lighter sentence.

Why? Because the system sees a black person coming from a ghetto or a white person coming from a privilleged background? No, because of your postal address, regardless of your skin colour. The historical data shows that… And that leads, unconciously, to racism.

I’m not explaining it as well as Cathy, and there she clearly explains it with dozens of other examples, and not just racism, there are many other ways in which our lives are screwed up by unthinking algorithms that collect the wrong data to give biased results that are detrimental to human society as a hole - University ranking systems, job candidate selection, insurance, credit scores, the stock market you name it, there are brilliant people writing algorithms that are deeply flawed, because they don’t understand the society and the data they are manipulating, they just understand the math. They are not being deliberately destructive or racist, but the results of there work are just that.

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@big_D reading your last sentence, was it your intention to write “…they are not being…”? Feels like a typo as currently written.

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Well spotted, thanks.

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